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Thread: Experience from raids

  1. #1
    Senior Member anita's Avatar
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    6 members found this post helpful.

    Experience from raids

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Average experience from raids:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Attack - Attack button (1, 5 or 20)
    Buffs - tactics applied
    Min.E - minimum amount of exp if all tactics will trigger
    Min.E - maximum amount of exp if all tactics will trigger
    AV.E/hit - Average experience per hit
    AV.E/SP - Average experience per skill point (1 stam = 2 SP, 1 Hon = 1 SP)


    STAMINA RAIDS

    Attack_ Buffs________ Min.E_Max.E___AV.E/hit___AV.E/SP
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |_1|___None____________1_____4______2,50_____1,25
    |_5|___None____________5____24_____14,50_____1,45
    |20|___None___________21___100_____60,50_____1,51

    |_1|___PoE_____________2_____8______2,59_____1,29
    |_5|___PoE____________10____48_____15,01_____1,50
    |20|___PoE____________42___200_____62,62_____1,57

    |_1|___LA______________2_____8______2,61_____1,30
    |_5|___LA_____________10____48_____15,11_____1,51
    |20|___LA_____________42___200_____63,04_____1,58

    |_1|___TaC_____________2_____8______2,55_____1,27
    |_5|___TaC____________10____48_____14,78_____1,48
    |20|___TaC____________42___200_____61,65_____1,54

    |_1|___PoE & LA________ 3____16______2,69_____1,35
    |_5|___PoE & LA_______ 15____96_____15,62_____1,56
    |20|___PoE & LA_______ 63___400_____65,16_____1,63

    |_1|___PoE & TaC_______ 3____12______2,64_____1,32
    |_5|___PoE & TaC______ 15____72_____15,30_____1,53
    |20|___PoE & TaC______ 63___300_____63,85_____1,60

    |_1|___LA & TaC________ 3____16______2,65_____1,33
    |_5|___LA & TaC_______ 15____96_____15,38_____1,54
    |20|___LA & TaC_______ 63___400_____64,19_____1,60

    |_1|___PoE & LA & TaC___4____24______2,74_____1,37
    |_5|___PoE & LA & TaC__20___144_____15,90_____1,59
    |20|___PoE & LA & TaC__84___600_____66,35_____1,66


    HONOR RAIDS

    Attack*_Buffs________ Min.E_Max.E____AV.E/SP
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |_1|___None____________1_____2______1,50
    |_1|___PoE_____________2_____4______1,55
    |_1|___LA______________2_____4______1,56
    |_1|___TaC_____________2_____4______1,53
    |_1|___PoE & LA________ 3_____8______1,62
    |_1|___PoE & TaC_______ 3_____6______1,58
    |_1|___LA & TaC________ 3_____8______1,59
    |_1|___PoE & LA & TaC___4____12______1,64

    * In honor raids it doesn't matter which type of attack you're using (1, 5, 20), they yeld the same amount of AV.E. But in stamina raids the difference is clear - 20-stam attacks gives you the most exp.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Calculations:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is the amount of experience you get from raids:
    Quote Originally Posted by Felendis View Post
    Regular Raids
    1x Attack = 1-4 exp
    5x Attack = 5-24 exp
    20x Attack = 21-100 exp

    Alliance Raids
    1x Attack = 1-2 exp
    5x Attack = 5-10 exp
    20x Attack = 20-40 exp
    Currently we have three buffs (tactics) that could affect the amount of experience we receive:
    Pursuit of Excellence (PoE) - doubles the amount of exp
    Lightning Assault (LA) - gives a chance to trigger another attack without additional stamina cost.
    Take a Chance (TaC) - doubles the amount of exp (or gives extra damage bonus, credits)

    According to Rafael's tactics theorycraft, the proc rates (for exp only) of those tactics are:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
    1. Lightning Assault: +4.2%
    2. Pursuit of Excellence: +3.5%
    3. Take a Chance:+1.9%
    Note: PoE + TaC together multiply the XP by 3 (not 4).
    I've calculated the average experience from raids by using the following formulas:

    Exp without buffs:
    Basic AV exp = (Max exp - Min exp)/2 + Min exp

    Exp with PoE applied:
    AV PoE exp = Basic AV exp * 0,965 + Basic AV exp * 0,035 * 2

    Exp with LA applied:
    AV LA exp = Basic AV exp + Basic AV exp * 0,042

    Exp with TaC applied:
    AV TaC exp = Basic AV exp * 0,981 + Basic AV exp * 0,019 * 2

    Exp with PoE & LA applied:
    AV PoE & LA exp = AV LA exp + AV PoE exp - Basic AV exp

    Exp with LA & TaC applied:
    AV LA & TaC exp = AV LA exp + AV TaC exp - Basic AV exp

    Exp with PoE & TaC applied:
    (This one's a little bit more complicated - there is less than 1% chance they'll trigger at once (exp x 3) and more than 99% chance for seperate effect)
    AV PoE & TaC exp = (AV PoE exp + AV TaC exp - Basic AV exp) * 0,999335) + Basic AV exp * 0,000665 * 3

    Exp with PoE, LA & TaC applied:
    (I'm assuming there's 50% chance PoE & TaC will trigger at the same strike and 50% chance they'll trigger at different LA strikes)
    AV PoE & LA & TaC exp = 0,5 * (AV LA exp + AV PoE & TaC - Basic AV exp) + 0,5 * (AV LA exp + AV PoE exp + AV TaC exp - 2 * Basic AV exp)

    When we finally have AV exp for different tactics applied, we have to divide it by the number of skill points (SP) used in the attack.
    1 stamina attack = 2 skill points
    5 stamina attack = 20 skill points
    20 stamina attack = 40 skill points
    1 honor attack = 1 skill point
    5 honor attack = 5 skill points
    20 honor attack = 20 skill points


    This way we get AV.E/SP - experience per skill points

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Conclusions:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Conclusion 1: The best tactic for experience is LA, PoE takes the second place and TaC is the third.
    Conclusion 2: Stamina is best for experience, but only it you're using LA, PoE and Tac together. Otherwise energy is comperable.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You can see also my average experience from missions charts for comparison.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Update log:
    13.07.2011 Added TaC
    Last edited by anita; 13th July 2011 at 13:44. Reason: Update

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rafael's Avatar
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    Nice work
    Note: I no longer play the game.

    My projects: [Tactics Theorycraft (outdated)| Damage Calculator (not sure if outdated... seems ok)| Officer Comparison (outdated) | Farming Guide (outdated)]


  3. #3
    Senior Member anita's Avatar
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    Update
    I've finally added TaC & changed the display a bit.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member anita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal View Post
    Nice, back then when I was a newbie I thought that a higher attack equals a higher amount of experience gain, well anyway, how long did it take you to do all the research for these facts? Lol
    I took the proc data from Rafael's tactics theorycraft, so my contribution is relatively small - just some calculations. It took me an hour or two hours to prepare it, I was never a math genius.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Lycano's Avatar
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    Great work and nicely explained - Thanks Anita
    "I am the light of the sun, the glow of the moon, and the glitter of the stars."
    "I am the brilliance of victory, the luster of the galaxy, and the splendor of mortality."

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Rafael's Avatar
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    Heh, thanks I'm glad that info has been useful then

    Quote Originally Posted by anita View Post
    Exp with PoE & LA applied:
    AV PoE & LA exp = AV LA exp + AV PoE exp - Basic AV exp

    Exp with LA & TaC applied:
    AV LA & TaC exp = AV LA exp + AV TaC exp - Basic AV exp

    Exp with PoE & TaC applied:
    (This one's a little bit more complicated - there is less than 1% chance they'll trigger at once (exp x 3) and more than 99% chance for seperate effect)
    AV PoE & TaC exp = (AV PoE exp + AV TaC exp - Basic AV exp) * 0,999335) + Basic AV exp * 0,000665 * 3

    Exp with PoE, LA & TaC applied:
    (I'm assuming there's 50% chance PoE & TaC will trigger at the same strike and 50% chance they'll trigger at different LA strikes)
    AV PoE & LA & TaC exp = 0,5 * (AV LA exp + AV PoE & TaC - Basic AV exp) + 0,5 * (AV LA exp + AV PoE exp + AV TaC exp - 2 * Basic AV exp)
    There are some (very small) inaccuracies in the way you combined the tactics, but the difference between what you obtained and the actual increase is so small that it probably wouldn't even change the numbers. Below is some mathematical explanation of how these can be accurately calculated - but for those who don't like math it might be boring, so I put it in a spoiler tag.



    So as a summary, here are the multipliers for each tactic combination:

    TaC: 1.019
    PoE: 1.035
    LA: 1.042
    T/P: 1.019 + 1.035
    T/L: 1.019 * 1.042
    P/L: 1.035 * 1.042
    T/P/L: (1.019 + 1.035) * 1.042

    Anyway, again, the differences between the numbers above and the ones you got would be very small anyway - when rounded to only 2 decimals it might even not change anything. I wish I could have helped earlier though, because the way you did you actually had much more work

    Keep up the good work
    Note: I no longer play the game.

    My projects: [Tactics Theorycraft (outdated)| Damage Calculator (not sure if outdated... seems ok)| Officer Comparison (outdated) | Farming Guide (outdated)]


  7. #7
    Senior Member anita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
    Heh, thanks I'm glad that info has been useful then



    There are some (very small) inaccuracies in the way you combined the tactics, but the difference between what you obtained and the actual increase is so small that it probably wouldn't even change the numbers. Below is some mathematical explanation of how these can be accurately calculated - but for those who don't like math it might be boring, so I put it in a spoiler tag.



    So as a summary, here are the multipliers for each tactic combination:

    TaC: 1.019
    PoE: 1.035
    LA: 1.042
    T/P: 1.019 + 1.035
    T/L: 1.019 * 1.042
    P/L: 1.035 * 1.042
    T/P/L: (1.019 + 1.035) * 1.042

    Anyway, again, the differences between the numbers above and the ones you got would be very small anyway - when rounded to only 2 decimals it might even not change anything. I wish I could have helped earlier though, because the way you did you actually had much more work

    Keep up the good work
    Thank you very much for this, I was hoping someone would point out the mistakes I might have made. I'll correct it as soon as I come back from vacation (September).
    Last edited by anita; 17th July 2011 at 12:06.
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  8. #8
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    Doing 1,000 1 stams will post results with % of getting 1-4 experience and the average overall gain.

    Ended up doing 777 1 stam hits.

    Break Down:
    777 Attacks
    Gains:
    1: 201
    2: 162
    3: 208
    4: 206

    Total Exp Gain: 1973
    Average Exp Gain: 2.54 (rounded a thousandth up)
    Average Exp Gain/SP: 1.27 (rounded a thousandth up)

    And a nice pretty chart:

    One Stam.jpg

    edit: Both the one and twenty are allowed for having 7 LSI so no gains of PoE/LA are factored in. Nor is TaC added.
    Last edited by Yez; 23rd March 2012 at 02:08.

  9. #9
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    There will be more but this is off of 100 - 20 Stam hits.

    Break Down:
    100 Attacks
    Gains:

    Total Exp Gain: 6208
    Average Exp Gain: 62.08
    Standard Deviation: 20.68
    Avg Exp Gain/Stam: 3.104
    Avg Exp Gain/SP: 1.552

    And a nice pretty chart!:

    20 Stam.jpg
    Last edited by Yez; 23rd March 2012 at 02:15.

  10. #10
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    The probablity of autolevel is approximately given by

    Probability = .5 * (-1 + erf( (14-elsi*xpppt) / (0.5701 * sqrt(2) * sqrt(numattacks) ) ) )

    This assumes that you are getting the vast majority of your xp from 20 stam attacks, although missions dont break the formula much. Large numbers of 5 stam attacks and 1 stam attacks will alter the results unfavorably. This formula also assumes that no xp enhancing tactics are used. XP enhancing tactics will improve the probablility

    Variables and Notation

    erf is the Error Function
    elsi is effective lsi = (total stam) * 2 + (total energy) + 1 Notice this uses total stam/energy not base. The +1 assumes that you are in an alliance and burning honor on raids.
    xpppt is xp per stat pt spent on stam. Approximately 1.5 as determined by Yez (1.552 may give more accurate results)
    numattacks is the number of 20stam attacks you can make. = (total stamina)/20
    Last edited by squirrelbait; 24th March 2012 at 13:21.

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