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Thread: Stamina/Attack breakdown on Raid damage

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    Developer Dahrizon's Avatar
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    10 members found this post helpful.

    Stamina/Attack breakdown on Raid damage

    If you want the maximum damage output for Raids, you want to put your points equally into Stamina and Attack. Two stat points into Stamina to raise it one point, two stat points into Attack to raise it two points (just to be clear on that).

    Your optimum damage output is going to be equally divided stats. Now, the damage shown here is a straight AVERAGE damage from your stats, without consideration for Legion, General, or Troops. Your actual damage will be higher than shown here. Perhaps after I'm doing deconstructing the Raid, I can recalculate Stat Allocation/Damage Output with those factors included. Once factored in, it's possible that having Stamina slightly higher than Attack may produce better results.

    The above statement does not take into account if you put points into Defense. If you do, then instead of figuring just Attack, you need to figure Attack Value. AV = Attack + (Defense *.44) I’m not certain that it’s .44 as in DotD, but I use that for now.
    Let’s say that you want to keep Attack and Defense pretty even.
    100 Attack + 100 Defense = AV 144.
    So you would want to have Stamina at 72.
    Giving you an unmodified Raid damage of 8640 to 11520 per 20 Stam hit.
    A full stamina bar will get you 31,104 to 41,472 unmodified damage.
    That was a use of 336 skill points. Those same skill points could also be worked into:
    169 Attack and 87 Stamina. This would give you an unmodified raid damage of 10,140 to 13,520 per 20 Stam hit.
    A full stamina bar will get you 44,109 to 58,812 unmodified damage.

    So, with 336 skill points:
    100A/100D/72S = avg. 36,288 unmodified damage
    169A/1D/72S = avg 51460 unmodified damage

    One thing you shouldn’t forget is Guild Raids. Raising your Stamina helps to level faster and do more damage (with more hits) but does nothing for your guild raid. Raiding your Attack increases your damage for normal raids AND guild raids.
    So, for a level 67 character with no extra stat points gained from turnin and nothing in Energy:
    171 Attack / 1 Defense / 72 Stamina / 67 Honor
    Average damage per full Stamina and Honor bar = 43,092 + 40,099 (total = 83,191 unmodified damage)
    OR
    1 Attack / 1 Defense / 157 Stamina / 67 Honor
    Average damage per full Stamina and Honor bar = 550 + 235 (total = 785 unmodified damage)

    BUT no one has 1 Attack once they put on their equipment, so let’s throw in 100 attack and 40 defense from equipment:
    271 Attack / 41 Defense / 72 Stamina / 67 Honor AV289
    Average damage per full Stamina and Honor bar = 72,828 + 67,771 (total = 140,599 unmodified damage)
    OR
    101 Attack / 41 Defense / 157 Stamina / 67 Honor AV119
    Average damage per full Stamina and Honor bar = 65,391 + 27,906 (total = 93,297 unmodified damage)

    Adding a little more complexity, some stat points gained in Legacy of a Thousand Suns are directly assigned to a stat. So, you will most likely be wanting to calculate your AV, and then figure that you need half that number in Stamina in order to get maximum damage PER LEVEL.
    Per level is an important distinction. If you pump a more points into Stamina, you will level faster and get Stamina refilled. Doing this will get you more damage over a specific length of time, but less damage per level (and for most people that’s not a concern). To determine the best ratio of Stamina to AV in order to level fast and get maximum damage…. well, I’ll leave that up to someone else.

    Want to add one more modifier to the ratio?
    At lower levels your Ship, Crew, and Officers can contribute a LARGE percentage of your damage. So going with a high Stamina build can be good. However, there is a practical limit to how much damage you can get out of your ship’s officers and crew. So, once you get up in levels, your personal stats are going to play a more important role than the ships.

    I understand that some skill points are going to be put into Energy, but this breakdown was just to show some ratios and relationships of Stamina and Attack in dealing damage.
    Just for a visual on the numbers, here is a chart I previously did for DotD. No one should have these types of numbers yet, but it may help some in understanding what I’ve tried to say.


    Last edited by Dahrizon; 1st December 2010 at 13:55.

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    Senior Member Trinity's Avatar
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    This is very useful information. Thank you for posting that. It is very good to point out that attack does really help you out a lot in alliance raids. The chart you made is amazing, thanks for making that. I feel it is right on with what is the "optimum" stat placement per damage output per level. =)
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    Senior Member AH-mazing Sam's Avatar
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    I LOVE THIS!!! This is how I have been leveling in all the games I play and am ALWAYS getting criticized about it. Even in the post I posted under "Character builds". This information is going to be sooooo useful! Thanks AH-gain for all the time you put into explaining what I have tried to explain for months. You ROCK!

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    Interisting...

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    you would probably want to do small and medium raids which gives mysterious techs and scrap armors (supplemented by a lot of giftings) on normal difficulty as often as possible

    those events are supreme cybertollahs and centruian cruiser

    why normal? normal only cost half stamina than nightmare, and it would increase your chance on getting attack upgrade col/exp items since it has less loots

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    Nice Post, I Like it......

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    Senior Member Tstering's Avatar
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    Great post, thanks for the information!

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    Developer Dahrizon's Avatar
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    After having followed the above 'semi-closely' for some testing, I found that the leveling is a bit slower if you have the same number of stat points put into Attack and Stamina. I'm not sure of a recontamination yet, but more balance toward Stamina is needed. The damage per level is best like this, but really needs to be balanced with damage over time also.

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    Senior Member Rafael's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.

    Rule of 8 (not 7 anymore!)

    NOTE: It seems the damage formula I was using before was not correct. I have now fixed it and named it the "Rule of 8"

    Taking into account the ship and equipment, you actually get a different value... In order to maximize your refill stamina damage, I like to use what I call the "Rule of 8".

    Tip: this only maximizes the REFILL stamina damage, either from level up or from GS refills. This DOES NOT maximize honor damage, or the damages dealt by the stamina/honor replenished by time. However, even for players who don't buy refills, your level-up refill damage should comprise the majority of your damage dealt anyway, so the rule is still useful.

    Rule of 8: If your average 1-stamina attack damage is LOWER than 8x your stamina pool, invest in attack. Otherwise invest in stamina.

    Tip: a different way to memorize it is: if your stamina is too low, put in stamina. If it's too high, put in attack. But what is the threshold between high and low? The answer is that it is 1/8th of your average damage.

    The validity of the rule of 8 is demonstrated later.

    In order to use the rule of 8, though, you need to know your average 1-stamina damage. I suggest using the following calculator to do it:

    http://www.legacyofathousandsuns.com...=7962#post7962

    For those who would be interested, the demonstration and formulas are below.

    The average damage formula is:

    Avg = 4*Atk + Def + [Ship's damage].

    Your total refill damage is Avg*Sta. (where Sta is how much max Stamina you have)

    By increasing your stamina by 1 point (ie, investing 2 stat points in it), you increase your refill damage by Avg.

    By increasing your attack by 2 points (to make a fair comparison), you increase your Avg by 8, which means your total refill damage increases by 8*Sta.

    So now we have to compare Avg with 8*Sta to see which scenario gives a better damage boost. If Avg < 8 Sta, then put points into attack - otherwise put points into stamina.
    Last edited by Rafael; 3rd February 2011 at 10:28.
    Note: I no longer play the game.

    My projects: [Tactics Theorycraft (outdated)| Damage Calculator (not sure if outdated... seems ok)| Officer Comparison (outdated) | Farming Guide (outdated)]


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    Developer Dahrizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahrizon View Post
    I'm not sure of a recontamination yet,
    Recontamination?!? Stupid spell checker.
    That was supposed to be Recalculation (I think).


    Very nice post Rafael. I don't have a chance to understand all your info right now, but looking forward to later.

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    Senior Member Thecowking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahrizon View Post
    Recontamination?!? Stupid spell checker.
    That was supposed to be Recalculation (I think).


    Very nice post Rafael. I don't have a chance to understand all your info right now, but looking forward to later.
    Recontamination is cool.

    I like it more in fact!

    Of course, I am under the influence of ethyl alcohol...
    The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.

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    LoTS Council Member Typale's Avatar
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    I'm liking this... gonna start pulling from the level driven focus as much soon and want to have optimal damage.. this is a perfect reference!

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    Also does this have any effect on XP gains? Or should I simply max stamina if I'm looking to level fast?

    EDIT: Ah just read up on your post Rafael, thanks for that - that anwers the questions I had below, but leaves the one above.

    So spending equal stat points into STAM & ATK is the ideal for damage. Awesome.

    Now if I already have X stamina from items, and Y attack from items do I still spend equal, or do I spent such that (STAM + X) = 2 * (ATK + Y)?
    Last edited by Maeltne; 5th January 2011 at 14:47.

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    Senior Member Rafael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeltne View Post
    Also does this have any effect on XP gains? Or should I simply max stamina if I'm looking to level fast?
    Damage has no influence on the XP gained. So if you want to level faster just put it on Stamina (or energy, that's an acceptable alternative too).

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    Hmm, then that would add another level to the optimization. Should you optimize you damage THIS level, or get to the next level ASAP?

    I'll probably go 2 STAM / 1 ENERGY until I have 200 Energy (any reason why 200 energy seems to be universally recommended), and then go 2 STAM / 1 ATK until I feel like I have 'enough' (probably never) and then go and maximize this formula.

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    Actually it seems to me that leveling (i.e. a full STAM/HONOR bar) is a far greater boost to damage than nearly any amount of ATK.

    Of course I'm still only level 85 and seem to be able to (on average) level every 2 hours. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I must say the getting really good XP rolls on raids and immediately leveling again is completely awesome (I last did that at 83).

    Thus I think I'll probably go:
    Levels 1-200: 1 ENERGY / 2 STAM
    Levels 201+: 2 STAM -> 3 STAM -> REPEAT

    And rely on gear & collections to increase my attack.

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    Senior Member Lillibeth's Avatar
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    dont plan an being able to auto level much. they found out that messed up the balance in DOTD and they moved the required exp needed by about 3k.

    We are new and improved, under new management!!!!!!!


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    Senior Member Z Aaron Knight's Avatar
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    Good info folks. However, you will reach a maximum at which additional stamina is ineffective. If you spend lots of time online, then you will rarely have your stamina refill, so additional stamina points beyond a certain level will be wasted, except when your stamina refreshes upon leveling up. According to my quick calculation based on a Spacefarer Class (energy=stamina recharge rate), Stamina recharges every 4 minutes 15 seconds, so 100 stamina is regained after 7.08 hours. If you play only once a day (you are probably not reading this forum), 340 Stamina will regenerate in 24 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Aaron Knight View Post
    Good info folks. However, you will reach a maximum at which additional stamina is ineffective. If you spend lots of time online, then you will rarely have your stamina refill, so additional stamina points beyond a certain level will be wasted, except when your stamina refreshes upon leveling up. According to my quick calculation based on a Spacefarer Class (energy=stamina recharge rate), Stamina recharges every 4 minutes 15 seconds, so 100 stamina is regained after 7.08 hours. If you play only once a day (you are probably not reading this forum), 340 Stamina will regenerate in 24 hours.
    Your dead wrong... It is that way for PvP build that should get minimal ammount of stamina that is usually based on their log on time / day... And after certain point one may wish to cut down on his stamina as one maybe want to PvP better... Other ones? Stamina is definitely best stat there is in this game... As 1 stamina point itself get you more than 2 atk points... as itself... Concerning PvP one should see log on time/day and calculate his stamina.. for example 8 hours... Balanced people... Maybe 500 or 1k stamina... Raiders... Either pure stamina as myself... Or follow the rule of 7... Saying this... Going pure stamina to eternity makes you uber raider if you play smart cause at same point you will hit rule of 7 (originally posted by Rafael) and maybe even hit over it... But saying this means a VERY long term plan, that I'm prepared to do... Currently PvP is just about ego... Like in any other game.... Nothing special about it.

    This is nice breakdown in sense that you can see what one should get you... But going SP wise to follow it would be dumb in my words... I've farmed 500atk (little less) so far... And I've got 580 or so stamina... So I'm obviously pro stamina.. Just wanted to point out that this is nice to see what'll get you some SP allocation...

    BUT leaving my things and "ranting" about stamina... This breakdown doesn't account for several things...

    1st... Pure attack build will do hell of a lot more dmg on regeneration time... So @ lvl 500 pure attack build might even hit highest till the end of raid compared to other type of build AT IT'S LVL.... BUT it takes a hell of a lot more time to get there.

    2nd. Stamina one lvls faster... So that wasn't accounted for... Lvl faster means filled bars + SPs....

    I think I will stop investing into stam after I reach 1k... I mean just to sync with 7 rule plan in case I don't sync till then. Then again pure stam.

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    Here is a lookup table for the optimized Rule for 8 for a given SHIP attack and Stamina values. NOTE: the optimized value is for AV = (4*ATK + DEF), so it isn't pure attack, but attack is the most efficient stat to spend skill points in to reach it.

    Code:
    	SHIP ATTACK
    	500	600	700	800	900	1000	1100	1200	1300	1400	1500
    STAMINA
    100	75	50	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
    200	275	250	225	200	175	150	125	100	75	50	25
    300	475	450	425	400	375	350	325	300	275	250	225
    400	675	650	625	600	575	550	525	500	475	450	425
    500	875	850	825	800	775	750	725	700	675	650	625
    600	1075	1050	1025	1000	975	950	925	900	875	850	825
    700	1275	1250	1225	1200	1175	1150	1125	1100	1075	1050	1025
    800	1475	1450	1425	1400	1375	1350	1325	1300	1275	1250	1225
    900	1675	1650	1625	1600	1575	1550	1525	1500	1475	1450	1425
    1000	1875	1850	1825	1800	1775	1750	1725	1700	1675	1650	1625
    1100	2075	2050	2025	2000	1975	1950	1925	1900	1875	1850	1825
    1200	2275	2250	2225	2200	2175	2150	2125	2100	2075	2050	2025
    1300	2475	2450	2425	2400	2375	2350	2325	2300	2275	2250	2225
    1400	2675	2650	2625	2600	2575	2550	2525	2500	2475	2450	2425
    1500	2875	2850	2825	2800	2775	2750	2725	2700	2675	2650	2625
    1600	3075	3050	3025	3000	2975	2950	2925	2900	2875	2850	2825
    1700	3275	3250	3225	3200	3175	3150	3125	3100	3075	3050	3025
    1800	3475	3450	3425	3400	3375	3350	3325	3300	3275	3250	3225
    1900	3675	3650	3625	3600	3575	3550	3525	3500	3475	3450	3425
    2000	3875	3850	3825	3800	3775	3750	3725	3700	3675	3650	3625
    2100	4075	4050	4025	4000	3975	3950	3925	3900	3875	3850	3825
    2200	4275	4250	4225	4200	4175	4150	4125	4100	4075	4050	4025
    2300	4475	4450	4425	4400	4375	4350	4325	4300	4275	4250	4225
    2400	4675	4650	4625	4600	4575	4550	4525	4500	4475	4450	4425
    2500	4875	4850	4825	4800	4775	4750	4725	4700	4675	4650	4625
    2600	5075	5050	5025	5000	4975	4950	4925	4900	4875	4850	4825
    2700	5275	5250	5225	5200	5175	5150	5125	5100	5075	5050	5025
    2800	5475	5450	5425	5400	5375	5350	5325	5300	5275	5250	5225
    2900	5675	5650	5625	5600	5575	5550	5525	5500	5475	5450	5425
    3000	5875	5850	5825	5800	5775	5750	5725	5700	5675	5650	5625

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